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  1. #1
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    Default Bricks and Ties

    Gday all. Hope you can help with 2 questions

    1) Existing home with rendered brick veener. The external brick has face fixed ties to the studs (i wouldnt say the centres are at 600x600 crs which is disappointing). It seems as though i see many brickies not installing brick ties at regular 600x600 centres.

    Anyway, i want to retrofit some more Abbey Ties....I plan to remove insode plaster, but the wall foil will be blocking access. I was planning on cutting slits in the existing foil and drill into the brick course and use abbey side fixings to the side of the timber stud.

    Any other ideas on retrofitting. is this a good idea i pland to use


    2) Also...why do brickies not fully butter up perpends on double height bricks? on the inside of the same wall, i can see mortar no getting to the inside edge. Some brickies say that is normal for double height ...but i am skeptical. Midland Bricks even suggest that for double height modulars dont need perpends to be buttered unless near corners...again weird**

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    Unless you have some sort of failure I cannot see a logical reason to add more ties.

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    1. Just leave it as is.


    2. Not fully buttering the inside is a not a defect.

    The VBA guide to standards and tolerances 2015 says that voids and holes in mortar are only a defect if viewed from a ‘normal viewing position’ which is 1.5m away on the outside of the wall.

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    Thanks guys. The ties in my opinion should be at 600x600 but there are no issues with distress... But I guess there have been no earthquakes in Brissie either.

    Joynz, it is clear to me at 1.5m that the perpends are not fully buttered.

    So just to be more clear, the double height brick is a standard modular 90mm wide. The horizontal beds are fully mortared the full width..which is good

    But the perpends are only mortared about 50% to 70% of the width. So when plasterboard is pulled off and the foil is removed, I can see the the mortar in the perpends stops about 30mm 40mm from the back of the brick.

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    when plasterboard is pulled off and the foil is removed
    That is not a “normal viewing position”

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    I definitely agree. It is not a normal viewing position. So based on that.. Are you advocating if perpends can't be seen, then there's no need to fill them?

    I guess I'm really looking at the need to have them fully filled versus half filled and what would be considered normal for a double height brick

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    So we have established that the brickies were a bit lax on fitting brick ties and in places did not fully fill the perps, these should have been noted and any issues addressed during the construction phase.
    If they concentrated on ensuring all perps were fully filled it is likely there would be a lot of extra mortar that would fall into the cavity, creating other potential issues.

    What problems are the above issues causing you that require them to be rectified now that construction is completed ?

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    Hi droog. No issues whatsoever, the render after 15 years barely shows any cracking... The issue of the perpends not fully filled was an observation and I'm more curious if this is the norm. If so why?. There's also the issue of the brick ties and how to retrofit more with the foil in the road. Any suggestions welcome.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    Gday all. Hope you can help with 2 questions

    1) Existing home with rendered brick veener. The external brick has face fixed ties to the studs (i wouldnt say the centres are at 600x600 crs which is disappointing). It seems as though i see many brickies not installing brick ties at regular 600x600 centres.

    Anyway, i want to retrofit some more Abbey Ties....I plan to remove insode plaster, but the wall foil will be blocking access. I was planning on cutting slits in the existing foil and drill into the brick course and use abbey side fixings to the side of the timber stud.

    Any other ideas on retrofitting. is this a good idea i pland to use


    2) Also...why do brickies not fully butter up perpends on double height bricks? on the inside of the same wall, i can see mortar no getting to the inside edge. Some brickies say that is normal for double height ...but i am skeptical. Midland Bricks even suggest that for double height modulars dont need perpends to be buttered unless near corners...again weird**
    I've heard of some strange things the covid restrictions are driving people to do, this one is up there, 600 X 600 spacing is adequate for the bulk of the wall except for openings & a few other areas, the masonry standard specifies perps to be full of mortar, I have posted this before, in your case with the render & the lack of cracking it's passed the test of time, you'd be better off regrouting your bathrooms if you're looking for things to do.
    inter

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    Any suggestions welcome.

    See posts 2 and 3

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    So if the ties were say 900x900 (which is more than double the tributary area of 600x600) and the perpends area only 50% filled, you would leave as is because in the last 15 years nothings happened?.. If that's you opinion. Fair enough - I respect that.

    But in fairness to my original question, how could one easily retrofit brick ties with wall wrap in place.?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    Thanks guys. The ties in my opinion should be at 600x600 but there are no issues with distress... But I guess there have been no earthquakes in Brissie either.

    Joynz, it is clear to me at 1.5m that the perpends are not fully buttered.

    So just to be more clear, the double height brick is a standard modular 90mm wide. The horizontal beds are fully mortared the full width..which is good

    But the perpends are only mortared about 50% to 70% of the width. So when plasterboard is pulled off and the foil is removed, I can see the the mortar in the perpends stops about 30mm 40mm from the back of the brick.
    Are you viewing form the outside of the wall and 1.5m away?

    Please post a photo from that vantage point so we can see.

    And a close up of the problem from your perspective (i.e.the inside where you can see it) if you’d like as well.

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    Here are two shots of one of my walls. 57 year old house. There are gaps in the back of some of the perpends. The wall isn’t going to move.

    The front is perfect.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 21ce3aaa-44c3-48d7-9a9e-5f43cbb5154f.jpg  
    Last edited by joynz; 18th Apr 2020 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Trying to fix the rubbish results from this rubbish uploader from the 80s!

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    Hi Joynz. Can I trouble you to upload those photos again. They didn't come thru to the forum. Or PM me with them

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    Hi Joynz. Can I trouble you to upload those photos again. They didn't come thru to the forum. Or PM me with them
    i loaded them using this site’s uploader - can you click the link?

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    It says invalid attachment attached.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    It says invalid attachment attached.
    have a look now. This site’s uploader is a relic.

    Now, please post your photos.

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    Hi mate. Yep I see one photo. And that is the same with mine except with double height brick. I will attach a photo of mine now

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    img_20200216_153832.jpgClick image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20200216_153832.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	94.1 KB 
ID:	125718looking from the top

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    img_20200216_155518.jpg

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    Where is that brick in relation to the wall. Please post a photo showing it in context. Is it at the top plate?

    Either way, it doesn’t need fixing. If there were voids visible from outside - maybe a bit of cosmetic gap filler (mortar type).

    But this looks like it’s taken inside the roof?

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    Joynz. I see a tie there. What crs are yours

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    Sorry.. Those shots are from me in the roof looking down on the uppermost course. That bricks you see are the ones near the eaves. Yes.. Near the stud top plate

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    Joynz. I see a tie there. What crs are yours
    Sorry, Iím not going to measure - because I think you need to stop dwelling on this!

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    Sorry. I wasn't expecting an accurate measurement. Just thought u would know rough crs. Anyway appreciate ur help

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    Sorry. I wasn't expecting an accurate measurement. Just thought u would know rough crs. Anyway appreciate ur help
    Same answer applies - I think you need to stop dwelling on it.

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    You are probably going to do more damage to the wall attempting to retrofit wall ties than if you leave it as is.

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    If I decide to go down this path. Again if... It would be drilled at a course line and carefully not to bust thru the other side. Abbey ties would be epoxied in obviously and nailed to stud.

    Any way, there must be hundreds if not thousands of renos which have had similar issues as this. I just don't know how to deal with the existing wall wrap. Hence the idea of Abbey side fixed ties and feeding them in thru small cuts in wrap.

    Again.. Only if I even decide to do this... But would be good to see what others have done... If I decide or not to do this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    If I decide to go down this path. Again if... It would be drilled at a course line and carefully not to bust thru the other side. Abbey ties would be epoxied in obviously and nailed to stud.

    Any way, there must be hundreds if not thousands of renos which have had similar issues as this. I just don't know how to deal with the existing wall wrap. Hence the idea of Abbey side fixed ties and feeding them in thru small cuts in wrap.

    Again.. Only if I even decide to do this... But would be good to see what others have done... If I decide or not to do this.
    I doubt many have done it, because it's silly beyond belief. Sorry about that , but it just has to be said.
    inter

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    Well it's "silly" for a brickie to not do what is stardard. Hard for owners to pick up this stuff when wall wrap was in place blocking view from the inside during construction. Anyway many do rectify but unfortunately they remove the wall wrap altogether... Do the work and replace with batts. Which I would never do.

    Anyway, thanks for the replies. I will think about it

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    Hi ghcomp69

    How do you know what the existing spacing of the brick ties is? Aren’t they hidden in the wall?

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    Hi Joynz. Whilst in the roof, I looked Down and was able to I measure the width spacing. Then dropped the tape measure down to measure height spacing. They're about 900x900

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    So you did this for every row of brick ties throughout the walls?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ghcomp69 View Post
    Hi Joynz. Whilst in the roof, I looked Down and was able to I measure the width spacing. Then dropped the tape measure down to measure height spacing. They're about 900x900
    What stud spacing do you have? if you're saying the ties are at 900 centres then that means you have 450 spaced studs & they are only on every second stud, 450 studs isn't a common thing.
    inter

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    I think studs set at around 450mm centres is pretty common on older houses in Vic. Mine has studs set at around 450mm centres (varies a bit) and was built in the 60s.

    Might be different in other states.

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    450 is common is old and new homes. And every 2nd stud has a brick tie in my case. But I only looked at a 5m length of wall. Being from the roof ceiling space looking down. I moved along the wall and did tie spacing measurements as I shuffled along.

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