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  1. #51
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Hi Chris, I found you some laurels to rest on

    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

  2. #52
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    What the hell is going wrong with the world? Even a property developer and a world leading electrics company are getting in to the conspiracy and claiming that they can make a ‘no bills’ house - and they are claiming that it might even be good for the environment! https://www.domain.com.au/news/an-ex...heage&ref=pos1

    What have those lefty, radical, good-for-nothing greenies being putting in the water supply to brainwash those capitalist companies in to trialling such an outrageous idea!
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  3. #53
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    Thanks Chris, that's all I wanted to know.
    Are you buying shares in a copper miner?
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  4. #54
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    Are you buying shares in a copper miner?
    No, but I've been stockpiling any I come across since my grandfather told me scrap copper was worth five bob (50cents) a pound more than 50 years ago.

    Do you know what's involved in recycling copper (mechanically)?
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  5. #55
    1K Club Member DavoSyd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    I knew I could rely on you Davo.
    What for Bedford?

  6. #56
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    No, but I've been stockpiling any I come across since my grandfather told me scrap copper was worth five bob (50cents) a pound more than 50 years ago.

    Do you know what's involved in recycling copper (mechanically)?
    I’m not familiar with the mechanical recycling techniques. I have had the opportunity to visit a copper refinery up in Queensland. I thought that Queensland was hot and humid enough, but walking over electrowinning cells in protective clothing is even hotter!
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  7. #57
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    I’m not familiar with the mechanical recycling techniques. I have had the opportunity to visit a copper refinery up in Queensland. I thought that Queensland was hot and humid enough, but walking over electrowinning cells in protective clothing is even hotter!
    Fair enough.

    Considering electric motors seem to have a longer service life than internal combustion engines, I was wondering if recycling the copper was the best/most economical way to go.

    Surely there is the possibility of simply replacing the bearings on the shaft and installing the motor in a new car.

    It would probably need insulation testing etc, but if built right the first time, should be serviceable many times over.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  8. #58
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    Considering electric motors seem to have a longer service life than internal combustion engines, I was wondering if recycling the copper was the best/most economical way to go.

    Surely there is the possibility of simply replacing the bearings on the shaft and installing the motor in a new car.

    It would probably need insulation testing etc, but if built right the first time, should be serviceable many times over.
    That’s an interesting point. Most electric cars will use 3-phase AC motors controlled by a variable frequency inverter. Most of the braking is regenerative, and even the power steering can be done by software (drive one side a little harder than the other if it is front wheel drive). There is very little maintenance to be done at all. About the only ‘maintenance’ item would be brake pads and windscreen wipers. And even the brake pads will get little wear compared to an internal combustion engined car. Most everything else is a ‘wear’ item (replace if it is broken).

    Strangely, I do recall some of the early EVs still had the usual 10,000km service intervals. I couldn’t figure out what the hell they were ‘servicing’!

    You r absolutely right about the motors, about the only thing to go wrong is the bearings. Like all 3-phase motors, they are pretty robust and reliable. New bearings should make them as good as new.
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    Even a property developer and a world leading electrics company are getting in to the conspiracy and claiming that they can make a ‘no bills’ house - and they are claiming that it might even be good for the environment! https://www.domain.com.au/news/an-ex...heage&ref=pos1
    Of course it is possible but at what capital cost? Didn't Hans Tolstrup get 100 mpg in a car?

    I'm sure if you set your mind to it you could do it easily but it could be an existence rather than living.

    I once worked with a bloke 20 yrs ago who would boast he could lie on $20 a week. He rode a bike and was not backward in using others milk for tea when he had his watermelon for lunch.

  10. #60
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Hi Chris, I found you some laurels to rest on

    For a moment there, I thought that you were offering to sharing your pot with me.
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  11. #61
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    Most of the braking is regenerative
    I've had a bit to do with Telma Retarders over the years and often wondered if any of the energy could be harnessed?

    There's plenty in a workshop situation that may be easier to adapt for harnessing if it was possible.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  12. #62
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    For a moment there, I thought that you were offering to sharing your pot with me.
    If you look closely you will see that those are Bay leaves (Laurus Nobilis), used in ancient times as a symbol of victory. Since your signature line states you have none to rest on, ... I thought I give you a bit of a rest.

    As far as pot, I have plenty and you can have this one.
    Regularly used to cook Spaghetti sauce that includes one or two Bay leaves some red wine and ... if you want the recipe I'll post one.

    Err ... my pot went walkabout. Here is another one.

    Last edited by Bros; 22nd Feb 2018 at 03:58 PM. Reason: Link not available
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

  13. #63
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    I've had a bit to do with Telma Retarders over the years and often wondered if any of the energy could be harnessed?

    There's plenty in a workshop situation that may be easier to adapt for harnessing if it was possible.
    i wasn’t aware of Telma Retards - thanks for the tip off. I had a quick look on the web. Quite interesting.

    In the workshop (and I assume mains powered?) I have noticed that there are electronic motor speed controllers (VFD) can be configured to provide braking, and that the braking can be regenerative. i.e. the controller can pump the energy back up the grid.

    I do recall experiments at uni where we had the characterise AC motors and load them up and measure the slip angles up to the point where they desynchronised. The ‘load’ was simply a generator which was putting the energy back in to the same AC supply. It’s kind of strange to see a motor and generator working flat out but hardly drawing any power from the grid!
    Last edited by chrisp; 22nd Feb 2018 at 08:21 PM. Reason: To fix the stupid Apple predictive text error
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    I do recall experiments at uni where we had the characterise AC motors and load them up and measure the slip angles up to the point where they desynchronised. The ‘load’ was simply a generator which was putting the energy back in to the same AC supply. It’s kind of strange to see a motor and generator working flat out but hardly drawing any power from the grid!
    So you never achieved the holy grail of perpetual motion

  15. #65
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post

    In the workshop (and I assume mains powered?)
    Yes, mains powered for the magnets, but this, 2WD Dyno Specifications, should give an indication of what they are retarding.

    DYNO: 2WD600* 2WD1200
    Maximum Rated Power @ 240kph: 850kW (1130hp) 1700kW (2279Hp)
    Maximum Rated Torque: 1700Nm (1254Ftlb) 3400Nm (2507Ftlb)

    Telma Retarder, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FMoUEmSsdE

    They are a retarder not a motor so couldn't be reversed to generate (I guess), just seems a waste, (especially when you get into truck stuff), that may have been able to be stored of fed back in.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  16. #66
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bedford View Post
    Yes, mains powered for the magnets, but this, 2WD Dyno Specifications, should give an indication of what they are retarding.

    DYNO: 2WD600* 2WD1200
    Maximum Rated Power @ 240kph: 850kW (1130hp) 1700kW (2279Hp)
    Maximum Rated Torque: 1700Nm (1254Ftlb) 3400Nm (2507Ftlb)

    Telma Retarder, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FMoUEmSsdE

    They are a retarder not a motor so couldn't be reversed to generate (I guess), just seems a waste, (especially when you get into truck stuff), that may have been able to be stored of fed back in.
    It does seem like a waste. I have seen water brake dynos in action for testing truck engines after rebuilding. But the dyno was fairly old and probably a little dated technology-wise.

    I had a look on Google as I figured that someone should make a dyno set using a regenative load. I found this site https://powertestdyno.com/choosing-dynamometer/ so regenerative dynos do exist. The quoted website gives a run down on three dyno technologies - water brake, eddy current (like the retarder you quoted) and regenerative. They quote the regenerative as being good for up to 5000hp - and mention power credits for the generated energy.

    For the dyno you mentioned, has it all ready been brought? If so, I wonder if the eddy current ‘retarders’ can be replaced by generators (and suitable controllers)?
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  17. #67
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marc View Post
    Regularly used to cook Spaghetti sauce that includes one or two Bay leaves some red wine and ... if you want the recipe I'll post one.

    Err ... my pot went walkabout. Here is another one.

    I always interested in recipes for spaghetti sauce. If you have any that are special or interesting, please post them up.
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    I always interested in recipes for spaghetti sauce. If you have any that are special or interesting, please post them up.
    What! do I have to make up a new thread for cooking?

  19. #69
    2K Club Member chrisp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    What! do I have to make up a new thread for cooking?
    We”re trying to give you some practice on splitting threads!
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

  20. #70
    The Master's Apprentice Bedford's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    It does seem like a waste.
    Yes that's what I thought.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    I had a look on Google as I figured that someone should make a dyno set using a regenative load. I found this site https://powertestdyno.com/choosing-dynamometer/ so regenerative dynos do exist.
    Well there you go! I couldn't find anything on them.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    The quoted website gives a run down on three dyno technologies - water brake, eddy current (like the retarder you quoted) and regenerative. They quote the regenerative as being good for up to 5000hp - and mention power credits for the generated energy.
    I suppose you could at least cook spaghetti with the water brake dynos!

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    For the dyno you mentioned, has it all ready been brought? If so, I wonder if the eddy current ‘retarders’ can be replaced by generators (and suitable controllers)?
    It was just from their website as an example of some of the figures they are retarding.

    I think it would depend on the physical size of the generator as to whether it would fit and line up with the rollers that drive it.
    Posted by John2b, And no, BEVs are not going to save the planet, which doesn't need saving anyway.

  21. #71
    4K Club Member Marc's Avatar
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    Bedford, it is not like you to call people names like retarded.
    Pasta sauce:
    Boil some water in a small pot and put the (Roma) tomato in the boiling water for a few minutes. Pull them out and peel them, cut then in half and take the seeds out.
    Now some oil in the pot, two garlic cloves peeled and remove that stupid growth inside them. Can't find decent garlic in Sydney.
    Don't let the garlic burn, add the tomato and cook on low heat. Sauce will go pink and then deep red when it is cooked. Halfway add half a glass of good red wine, two bay leaves, salt and pepper. Tip: don't add your sauce to the pasta, add the pasta to the sauce pot.
    You can add Oregano or Basil if you like.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect
    Mark Twain

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