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Abseiling protection over steep piched roof and gutter

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  1. #1
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    Default Abseiling protection over steep piched roof and gutter

    I need to build/design some sort of rope protection for an abseiling rope going over a roof and then a gutter.....any ideas?????

    I’m thinking maybe of a piece of form ply that is big enough to pick up at least 4 roofing screws…how big do you think it would have to be……are the roofing screws every 2 ridges apart???/ how big would that make the plate?????
    Then an additional piece on the end that will overcome the higher lip on the gutter so that the rope doesn’t touch the edge of the roof or the gutter…maybe also a groove in the that part to help keep the rope in place and not move sideways.

    Problem I see is that the holes in the form ply must be drilled to exactly line up with the original roofing screws so that additional holes are not drilled into the roof or enlarge the holes in any way that would lead to possible future leaks when the roofing screws are put back.

    I can't see any real loading problems, just the need to protect the edge of the roof, the gutter and the rope.

    Of course ear muffs, safety glasses and gloves will be worn.

    Thanks for any help...no Darwin Award suggestions ..gutter-600x800-.jpggutter2-600x800-.jpggutter3-600x800-.jpggutter4-600x800-.jpggutter5-600x800-.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails gutterr-guard062.pdf  

  2. #2
    Slow but rough Uncle Bob's Avatar
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    Gee. Good question.
    Another good question. Why would ya want to?

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    You won't need to be that elaborate. You need something to spread the load over the gutter so you won't crush it. And gutters are tough. So I'd go with a narrow length of carpet running down from the ridge over the gutter. The gutter itself can be supported with a bit of internal timber blocking. Main game will be making sure your abseilers don't stand on the gutter and make the transition from roof to wall smoothly without pressuring the gutter...
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

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    What are you actually doing? There are very long ladders, right?

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    Hire an ewp?

  6. #6
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    Background...my son is an industrial abseiler and has this job to do......horses for courses...........carpenters come up with ideas in timber, fitters come up with ideas in metal brackets, plumbers come up with ideas in 12" wrenches and hacksaws, he's been hired to do the job with ropes, if it's ladders or scaffolding then it's somebody else s job.

    I like the simple idea of carpet or similar and a block of wood...I did initially think of something like this, thanks Silent.

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    When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail

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    Off topic already...one answer in six. Whats the general ratio?

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    The ratio? Well, you should buy a lotto ticket..
    .

  10. #10
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    I don't really have an answer for you because I personally would not do what you are intending, but I will give you the following info
    Any plates attached to the roof will need to cover one sheet width i.e more than 760 if the sheeting is trimdeck,(impossible to tell from the pics) and across 2 battens, distance apart unknown..
    The gutter will crush no matter how much carpet and timber is used.
    You may need to make a platform as I believe you first mentioned, to keep the full weight of the ropes and personal on the roof not the gutter, but of course you then run the risk of roof damage from the weight pressure.
    I also believe the weight may tend to tear the roof where the screws are on the anchor plate at top of roof, which in turn may snap the screws, and I would also question the strength of your arrangement giving consideration to the type of battens used under the sheeting.
    Metal battens will be weaker than timber in this situation.

    As to the spacing of screws, the sheets look to be trimdeck which covers 760 mm and should have screws every corrugation every batten, i.e 5 screws per sheet, and the screws usually end up 185-195 apart, but there is no way of determining the exact position of the screws without physically measuring them where you intend to install the anchor plate

    There are some jobs I would run from, this is one of them.

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    Thanks cyclic, I can understand the over engineering due to OHS etc etc. I was just about to post a much simpler post along the idea of what Silent said and need some input as to any forces against the gutter/bracket set up if it is just some sort of method to stop the gutter from deforming.

    Idea along the lines of Silent.......fill the gutter with a block of wood to stop any deformation.....put another piece of timber over this and just past the lip of the gutter, maybe also an extra piece of timber on top of this again the distant apart would be the rope thickness thus allowing no sideways movement and allowing just gravity and the snug fit to hold it in place???

    Considering a safety factor of say 200kg hanging off the end of the rope do you think this would have any detrimental effect on the gutter/bracket/fascia setup?

    dscf7738-1024x768-.jpg

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    P.S to Cyclic...I believe the ropes will probably run right up over the top of the roof and maybe anchored on the ground on the other side. I don't think my son is planing to anchor the ropes in any way directly of the roof.

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    Default Abseiling protection over steep piched roof and gutter

    I used to do rope access as part of my job although it was quite a few years ago. Old carpet over the ridge and for the gutter perhaps a commercial gutter ladder bracket in conjunction with some carpet. As far as anchor points I wouldn't use any on the roof itself as any anchor point for twin rope has to be engineer designed( or at least it used to) I would anchor my ropes to a vehicle( keys removed) or other solid structure on opposite side of the roof to the one he's working on. Rope access is virtually limitless on what you can access with some ropes and a little know how . Good luck

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazydays View Post
    Thanks cyclic, I can understand the over engineering due to OHS etc etc. I was just about to post a much simpler post along the idea of what Silent said and need some input as to any forces against the gutter/bracket set up if it is just some sort of method to stop the gutter from deforming.

    Idea along the lines of Silent.......fill the gutter with a block of wood to stop any deformation.....put another piece of timber over this and just past the lip of the gutter, maybe also an extra piece of timber on top of this again the distant apart would be the rope thickness thus allowing no sideways movement and allowing just gravity and the snug fit to hold it in place???

    Considering a safety factor of say 200kg hanging off the end of the rope do you think this would have any detrimental effect on the gutter/bracket/fascia setup?

    I would not rely on the gutter in any way whatsoever, and also consider the roof is probably 60 mm into the gutter which limits the size of timber that can be placed, and if the fascia is metal, that just makes it even weaker still.
    The timber arrangement you show may work but it is putting all the weight right on the end of the roof sheeting, also, how do you stop the ropes slipping down the ridge, or crushing the ridge.
    Like I said, I can only give you info.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lazydays View Post
    Off topic already...
    No, just a simple observation that you don't need to abseil to reach those heights. Sounds like a hero complex to me. "Look at me, my fancy ropes, and the pieces of wood and carpet Dad invented"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lazydays View Post
    Off topic already...
    Not really. You haven't answered the simple question of what the job task is at hand. After all if Work Safe happen to appear, they will want to see some form of work method statement with emergency back up plan regardless of how apt your son is at his profession.

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    Quote Originally Posted by r3nov8or View Post
    Sounds like a hero complex to me. "Look at me, my fancy ropes, and the pieces of wood and carpet Dad invented"
    or "my dad dobbed me in to work on his mates house, but i only do glass buildings designed to be abseiled..."
    freedom of expression freedom from consequences...

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by lazydays View Post
    Background...my son is an industrial abseiler and has this job to do......horses for courses...........carpenters come up with ideas in timber, fitters come up with ideas in metal brackets, plumbers come up with ideas in 12" wrenches and hacksaws, he's been hired to do the job with ropes, if it's ladders or scaffolding then it's somebody else s job.

    I like the simple idea of carpet or similar and a block of wood...I did initially think of something like this, thanks Silent.
    If your son is a professional he does not need you to ask funny questions in an unrelated forum. He would/should know what to do. And by the way, we don't get paid to answer questions we answer because we have fun doing it. So if you don't like the answer, it is your bad luck ... or should I say lack ...

    If someone asks the following question please do not answer :
    "What is the minimum size rope I need to support a falling body of 80k in free fall for a meter to bring it to a sudden halt without breaking?"
    Don't answer because it is unrelated to renovations ...
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  19. #19
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    ... he's been hired to do the job with ropes ...
    really?

  20. #20
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    The weight of a grown human idiot abseiling on a rope won't crush a gutter. I know this because, in another life, my housemates and I used to abseil off our three story flat roofed share house for kicks. It was on a steep sloping site in Avalon on Sydney's Northern Beaches. We could tie off the ropes from a tree in the front yard and then abseil off the roof into the pool out the back. Great fun! Especially at night. Gutter survived no worries because it was never stepped on and rarely loaded because your feet were on the wall...but we used a short length of 90 X 90 in the gutter just in case
    Joined RF in 2006...Resigned in 2020.

  21. #21
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    My question is how are you going to get onto the roof in the first place and then place the block into the gutter?
    The ropes sliding sideways on that angled ridge is what would worry me more.

    Out of interest, what work is being done?

  22. #22
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    Default Abseiling protection over steep piched roof and gutter

    Knuckle boom?
    ===================

  23. #23
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    Gave up on the gutter protection idea fairly early on. Did find some commercial guards available but they were too expensive and no time to replicate.
    The house is known as "The Munsters" house.
    Painted the roof with a combination of ropes and not going over the gutter but working upwards instead plus a combination of ropes and ladders on some of the patios..

    ladder.jpgmunster068-566x800-.jpg

  24. #24
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    What, no photos?

    damn, was so hoping for a picture account of it going down

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