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Strange gutter leaks?

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  1. #1
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    Default Strange gutter leaks?

    Hi Folks,

    I have a gutter problem at the rear of my house that has me flummoxed. It's a rectangular 5-degree Trimdek roof that I installed myself as an owner-builder 30 years ago (I started with a completely derelict house and was almost broke when I got to the rear roof!) It was finished off with a standard Quad gutter (also installed by yours truly). The whole set-up performed pretty well until I got a local roof/gutter repair firm in a couple of years ago to fix a bit of rust in an end sheet - my one big blue had been to overlap the end sheet rather than cut it to width properly with inevitable rust problems from condensation.

    The roofer installed the new sheet and then installed a large capacity half-round gutter. He also apparently trimmed my roof sheets (which had been factory-cut to length when originally ordered) with shears - I'm not sure why - and then bent the gutter ends downward (rather roughly with pliers), something I'd neglected to do when I did the original installation, probably because I didn't have the proper Trimdek tool.

    Ever since the roof/gutter has leaked in any moderate/heavy rain. Seen from below the dripping appears to be from the back edge of the gutter, between gutter & fascia. It's impact has become even more obvious now I've built a covered pergola and deck at the rear of the house! I'm having real problems figuring out what's going on and haven't yet been able to get the tradie back to have a look.

    I got up on the roof and noted that the turned-down bottom edges of the Trimmed sheets was done so roughly that the ends of the troughs were effectively pulled or bent up by around 5-10mm! So although the actual edges were pointing down, the gutter surface immediately behind the edge had been heaved upwards several mm. I thought that this might be allowing water to pool & run back under the sheets until it hit the fascia and then run down behind the gutter (where I can see gaps of 1-3mm of so). Where the dripping on the deck was particularly bad I hammered the trough ends flat again with a mallet and this seemed to have some limited +ve effect.

    Unfortunately the same strategy didn't work further along the roof where the dripping was really severe (fortunately no deck there). So does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be going on? Is half-round guttering prone to excessive splashing maybe? Or does it require greater overhang than regular Quad guttering?

    If I can get hold of a proper Trimdek tool I'm happy to get up on the roof and bend the gutter ends down again - this time properly - to see if that'll solve it. But I'm wondering if I should try to get some sealant in behind the back of the gutter and then put in a bunch of Tek screws to close off the noticeable gaps between gutter and fascia? Has anyone done this and found it effective?

    I've even thought getting this rear section reroofed when summer comes as I'm getting on and can do without the aggravation, but I'd like to solve the problem without resorting to that!

    Any advice much appreciated,

    Sam.

  2. #2
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    Putting sealant behind the gutter is just putting a temporary bandaid over the real problem. It is always better to find the real cause and make the required repairs.

    A couple of pictures would go a long way here, I can’t say I am familiar with C or D section gutters. Most gutters have a type name such as Quad, Ogee, Squareline or Half round.

    If the water is wicking back under the sheets it should be fairly visible, just run a hose on the roof and look carefully at what happens.
    Turn down tools are readily available but are an expense for a one off, if you are handy a suitable copy can be made with $10 worth of scrap and an hour of labour.
    https://www.metalroofingonline.com.a...milar-roofing/

  3. #3
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    Thanks for the reply droog. You've prompted some further thought on my part - when I used the mallet to flatten the ends of the sheets where they'd been 'turned down' by the roofer perhaps I should have followed through by then turning the edges down properly! Hammering them flat simply got rid of the clumsy bump in the ends of the Trimdek troughs - turning them down as well may encourage more effective water shedding into the gutter. I had a look at the video you linked to - the neat turn-downs shown looked nothing like those on my roof! I'll see if I can make a proper tool or maybe hire one.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savvas View Post
    Hi Folks,

    I have a gutter problem at the rear of my house that has me flummoxed. It's a rectangular 5-degree Trimdek roof that I installed myself as an owner-builder 30 years ago (I started with a completely derelict house and was almost broke when I got to the rear roof!) It was finished off with a standard Quad gutter (also installed by yours truly). The whole set-up performed pretty well until I got a local roof/gutter repair firm in a couple of years ago to fix a bit of rust in an end sheet - my one big blue had been to overlap the end sheet rather than cut it to width properly with inevitable rust problems from condensation.

    The roofer installed the new sheet and then installed a large capacity half-round gutter. He also apparently trimmed my roof sheets (which had been factory-cut to length when originally ordered) with shears - I'm not sure why - and then bent the gutter ends downward (rather roughly with pliers), something I'd neglected to do when I did the original installation, probably because I didn't have the proper Trimdek tool.

    Ever since the roof/gutter has leaked in any moderate/heavy rain. Seen from below the dripping appears to be from the back edge of the gutter, between gutter & fascia. It's impact has become even more obvious now I've built a covered pergola and deck at the rear of the house! I'm having real problems figuring out what's going on and haven't yet been able to get the tradie back to have a look.

    I got up on the roof and noted that the turned-down bottom edges of the Trimmed sheets was done so roughly that the ends of the troughs were effectively pulled or bent up by around 5-10mm! So although the actual edges were pointing down, the gutter surface immediately behind the edge had been heaved upwards several mm. I thought that this might be allowing water to pool & run back under the sheets until it hit the fascia and then run down behind the gutter (where I can see gaps of 1-3mm of so). Where the dripping on the deck was particularly bad I hammered the trough ends flat again with a mallet and this seemed to have some limited +ve effect.


    Unfortunately the same strategy didn't work further along the roof where the dripping was really severe (fortunately no deck there). So does anyone have any suggestions as to what might be going on? Is half-round guttering prone to excessive splashing maybe? Or does it require greater overhang than regular Quad guttering?

    If I can get hold of a proper Trimdek tool I'm happy to get up on the roof and bend the gutter ends down again - this time properly - to see if that'll solve it. But I'm wondering if I should try to get some sealant in behind the back of the gutter and then put in a bunch of Tek screws to close off the noticeable gaps between gutter and fascia? Has anyone done this and found it effective?

    I've even thought getting this rear section reroofed when summer comes as I'm getting on and can do without the aggravation, but I'd like to solve the problem without resorting to that!

    Any advice much appreciated,

    Sam.

    Holy krap, I just choked on my allbran at the price of the turn up/ turn down tool, and I thought my old roofing tools weren't worth much.
    Better start marking them with prices so the sons know what they are throwing out when I fall off the perch.

    The bold section in your post literally sums it up however this is not the first time I have seen the same problem with trimdeck.
    It worked until they stuffed it up cause trimdeck is often a problem if fitted or revamped by people who don't know diddly squat what they are doing.

    You can get them back but with what they have done so far (multi grips to turn down roof) I would not.
    Two things you can do.
    (1) Stand on a step ladder, remove the screw holding the lap at the gutter, hold the lap up slightly with maybe a piece of timber and using a pair of snips, cut back the under lap at 45 degrees then replace the screw.
    This may work and should have been done from day one
    (2) If number (1) does not work get some flashing made and install it under the roof and pointing down into the gutter.
    This is what I had to do on a roof I fixed with the same problem.

    Hope this helps.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails img_20210616_0001.jpg   img_20210616_0001.jpg  

  5. #5
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    Thanks for the flashing tips cyclic - I may end up trying this although the internal brackets may make it difficult. Yes - the Trimdek tool is expensive for what it is. But having just built a deck out of 86x19 spotted gum I've realised that I have a pile of extremely dense, nicely finished scraps I can maybe fashion a turn-down tool from. I'll try to make one, sandwiching a bit of 3 or 4mm aluminium between 2 scraps and tying the whole thing together with a big bolt. The more I think about it the more obvious it seems that the problem has been due to poorly done turning down of the pan ends. I've been up since 4am reading about the consequences of not doing this properly. I don't know how I got away with not turning the ends down when I originally built this roof - maybe I simply had an excessive overhang into the gutter (which my roofing contractor has now 'shortened')! Thanks again for the tips and flashing pics!

  6. #6
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    If the roofer trimmed the overhang into the gutter it is likely water is wicking back up the sheets causing the problem. In houses I have owned with this problem I have successfully solved it by slipping a pice of flshing under the sheet ends. The flashing 5 in the picture below, inverted so that section C points upwards under the sheets, is what I have used. Section A slips into the gutter covering the gap to the facia and preventing leaks. You may have to flex or bend it to suit a round gutter.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails custom-flashing-profile-types.jpg  
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

  7. #7
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    Thanks John! We're both in SA - can you recall where you obtained the flashing profile #5? Do you know what it's called? thanks, Sam.

  8. #8
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    https://www.bing.com/images/search?q...mageBasicHover

    Most plumbers supplies/ hardwares will provide you with flashings from Stramit but using profile 5 may not work with the internal brackets as you mentioned in # 5 above which is why I used 45 degree flashing..??
    And make sure any flashing does not protrude past the sheet ends because this will cause you further problems

  9. #9
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    I think Fielders or Stratco would have or could roll the profile you need.
    Before you speak, ask yourself: Is it necessary, it is true, does it improve on the silence? - Baba

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