ICF construction?

My builder mate is an authorised Ecoblock constructor in the ACT and has built several Ecoblock houses over the last few years. He has been building for many years (he's in his 40s) and is a real convert on this type of construction for the reasons you mentioned.

But . . . from my conversations with him this is not a game for new players or DIYers - there are a range of tips & traps that are not always obvious or easily foreseen. He has had good training and support from the Australian distributor and my personal view is that the completed houses are outstanding in almost all respects.

Cost is competitive especially if one accounts for the R-values of the completed dwelling and what it would cost to get a conventionally designed and built house to that level. Part of this is in time saving too - once the slab is ready the next stages are much faster to erect.

Critical issues are getting the first runs level and square and then to maintain that diligently. After compromises to get his first one built he has purchased some adjustable supports and a few other bits and pieces that make erecting the walls easier and more accurate - all standard, but used in a different way and he recovered the costs in the first job he used them in saved time.

Remember that although these are energy efficient in their operational recurrent costs they are really formed reinforced concrete houses which retain the formwork. The embedded energy in concrete is very high and IMO the life-cycle costs (which are not easily available) are likely to be not as energy efficient as might be imagined. The way the concrete is encased also mean that it is ineffective as a heat bank - it is largely structural although has some insulation value of course. In Europe especially they are now using pumped aerated concrete (dries similar to Hebel blocks) to fill the gap between the styrofoam blocks as this reduces the embedded energy level, retains structural strength, increases the insulation value and speeds up construction (as there are fewer pours).

The comfort level in a climate like the ACT has to be felt to be believed - at least one of these I have been in has no traditional space heating or cooling at all and in all seasons stays between 17-25 degrees. This is due to it's solar passive design which includes the Ecoblock construction along with trombe walls, external eves and shading, correct orientation and so on.

So probably worth a look for the Melbourne climate, but unless you have existing skills and plenty of time and money go with someone who has built them before - and use a designer or architect who can show you built examples of their solar passive houses (most nowadays are claiming sustainable or solar passive in their marketing, but so many do not have the first clue!).

We are planning to do our extension with ICF (including my new shed) Have you checked out Danish constructions in South Clayton? they sell and suply Insulbrick.
http://www.danishconstructions.com.au/
I would be interested in networking with you to share info and suggestions. I will be doing our project as an owner/builder.

wizard, We have just put in the planning application for our reno's, so we are looking at starting construction in about 6-7 months (after planning and building approvals etc.) This is going to be fun for me as a house-husband with a 9 month old and a 2.5 year old...... I'll keep you posted too.

Originally Posted by sundancewfs

This is going to be fun for me as a house-husband with a 9 month old and a 2.5 year old...... I'll keep you posted too.

So definitely not DIYing - that's a more than full-time job (and a bizarre definition of 'fun')! . . .

Oldbloss - I'm sure I'm speaking for myself and Wizard when I say -



I've got a similar extension in mind and will be following this thread with much interest!!!

oldbloss....
Yes I will be doing the bulk of the work...
Weekends and nap times will be busy. Laundry and cleaning gets done after bed. coffee and and playing around on the forum, before they wake up.
As it is my only job, it works out pretty well. Some of the stuff I will sub out ( like the roof) We decided to go colourbond on the lot, old, new and shed. It will mean re-battening the exisiting roof but it will also allow us to sark and insulate under the tin rather than have a very breezy old 1960's tile roof.

I emailed zego with a tech question once and got no response.
I wasn't very impressed with their customer service.

I have been very impressed by Danish Constructions (insulbrick supplier) Having talked to Tim Drummond there, I was able to arrange a meeting with him and my draftsman to look over the site and judge what level of involvement we want to have with them. for instance... getting them to just supply the ICF blocks, getting them to supply and build the walls, supply, build the walls and put the roof on etc etc etc.... It also allows my draftmans to ask any construction related questions which may be relevent to the working drawings. Basically it allows me to get everyone involved in the project on the same page, right from the start. I recently bought a book on ICF construction called, The Concrete House, by Pieter A. VanderWerf. It is an interesting book to read if you are considering building in this manner. It is witten from an American perspective, for the American market, but as it doesn't get too technically involved, it translates quite well. This is not a "how to build" book. It is written in question and answer format, and is aimed more at those who have heard of the ICF style of building but want to know more about the features and benefits, and basic construction details of it. It is available in Australia, but as most thing is substantially cheaper from amazon
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Concrete-House-Building-Efficient-Insulating/dp/1402736290/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1221362169&sr= 8-1"]Amazon.com: The Concrete House: Building Solid, Safe & Efficient with Insulating Concrete Forms: Pieter A. VanderWerf: Books[/ame]

Just thought I'd chuck this in too -

http://www.cmbrick.com.au/pdf/broformblocknswact.pdf

It's a mortarless concrete block system that I very nearly tried a couple of years ago.

I had a look at one of the eco block videos and something that stood out was fixing heavy things to walls - stuff the lining could not cope will. It seems that one would have to put in hardpoints using normal concrete blocks. Or am I wrong?

GrahamC
If you know what sort of heavy stuff and where you want to put it (kitchen cabinets etc) you can imbed fasteners in the concrete as you pour/fill the blocks poking it through the internal foam and into the cavity to be filled. Some styles of "blocks"/panel systems have plastic internal ribs which you can screw into also.

Definately need some form of (hardpoints/fasteners) around any windows that are going to have external blinds fitted when constructing with ICF . had a job where customer wanted automatic (spring loaded) units fitted. Drilled a hole to fit hood, was like drilling into mortar. Tried drilling into another spot, same issue. Refused to fit blinds cause I could not guarantee the anchors would stay in the wall, especially since it was in an open area (subject to wind gusts).

As a rule I try not to anchor into mortar, spent a lotta time fixing anchors that are pulling out of the stuff.

Watched the Zego videos a while ago. Correct if I am wrong, but looks like water pipes & power are fitted directly behind the plasterwork after cutting a "trench" in the polystyrene outer of the ICF wall. Think I would be attaching a picture rail once the plaster was hung before I forget where the services run.

If anyone needs some first hand info on building with ICF from a DIY perspective I'm happy to assist. I am about to pour my final 4 rows of our house. I bit of a fair chunk with a 515m^2 house and both internal and external walls are ICF.

I bought from Thermacell using 200mm block outside an 150mm blocks inside.

I think it is an unskilled task. With correct guidance from the start its pretty easy. My major issues were that my engineer specified a recessed slab - dont do that. I live on 120 acres overlooking a valley from the top of a hill - its damn windy and gets difficult to get the blocks to stay put - buy some bracing timber if its real windy - Walls are 3.25m high. Do the first 2 layers and hand fill half a block high to get started, then use a line pump (2" hose). At design stage get the designer to work to standard cutting points on the blocks - mine cut a 50mm intervals and ideally at 100mm. Put your steel in after you markout your walls.

PM me if you want to chat.

Regards

Ralf

Update:

So far we have our planning permission, certificate of consent (owner/builder cert), and soil report. The soil report threw us a bit of a curve. The shed site turned out to have a "P" rating and solid grounding at 1.7 metres! After having talked to our engineer, we decided on pier and beam slab design. This will enable us to put the 2 storey shed on this site. We will also be putting in a 30,000 litre rainwater tank as part of our stormwater mitigation. when this is full, at our current usage rate of 505 litre for a family of 4, it should give us 2 months of water, if it doesnt rain.
I now have the draftsman, block suppliers and engineer all talking together.
Our working drawings are underway.
Next will be to apply for the building permits.
If you have any questions about any part of the process, please ask.
Stay tuned

People have expressed concern at the ability to be able to hang things on ICF walls. I decided to do a test using a white coarse screw type, plasterboard wall anchor.
First I filled a sample ICF block. with concrete and let it set, then I glued plaster board to one surface with liquid nails, I actually glued two pieces, so I had a joint I could tape and finish. Then I srcewed the anchor into the plasterboard. The first thing I noticed was that the anchor screwed in with a positve feel, all the way flush, unlike some I have screwed into plasterboard on timber framed walls. They sometimes have a tendency to eat up the gypsum and not anchor correctly. I then screwed a plasterboard fixing screw into the anchor and hung a 25kg bag of GP cement off it.
The anchor didn't budge. Note that the anchor is not in concrete, just plasterboard and the polystyrene behind it. My feeling is, that the polystyrene behind the plasterboard gives it support and allows the anchor to do its job much more effectively than when they are screwed into unbacked/supported plasterboard.
I left the bag of cement on the anchor for 48 hours, with no discernable change in its position.
Not very scientific, but somewhat interesting.....

Just an update on our reno/construction.
It seems very hard to get tradesmen to quote.....
About a month ago I asked 5 firms for quotes for the 2 slabs required for our project. Yesterday I got the first quote back. $30,000 for the 2 slabs (not including the initial site works)
Trying to budget for a project like this seems to be pure guess-work. I have found it so hard to get costings or quotes from all the trades and suppliers I have approached.
Having all the documentation nesesary helps some what, as if you don't have working drawings/plans, engineering, soil reports, energy reports service maps, etc... Its seems most of them think your playing around with a pipe-dream and don't want to waste their time. (couldn't be further from the truth with this project! My wife wants a laundry! )

Well we have our building permits!
I am going to document the build process and would like to know whether to continue it on this thread or start a new one in "go to whoa".
So far, from putting in the planning submission, to getting the building permit has taken 10 months.

The project entails adding an ICF two storey, 120 m2 addition to our 106 m2 1966 brick veneer house and building an ICF detached two storey 110m2 garage/store/shed/workshop. Along with a lot of other bits and pieces, drainage, landscaping, cladding the existing house on foam, etc etc....

hi

start a new one bro

thanks