Owner-Builder

Rod1949,
Don't let me or anyone else talk you out of it if you are really keen to do this thing, and put in a big effort.

I am a registered builder (some would say architect and contractor ) but don't work as a builder. All my houses therefore have technically been "owner built", the last two with a carpenter/foreman - supervisor.

You need to be there. You cannot rely on others to do the right thing...they won't. You need to co-ordinate. You need to order things and follow up.

Will you save money?? Probably not, depending on how well organised you are, except for the work you do yourself, depending on what the current work climate is in your town. You may pick up a few dollars, but remember that if you don't supervise correctly you will be the one coming back to fix the leak in four years time.

In my experience subbies will be thinking that this is a one off, they will have a lot of buggery factor because they are working for an owner builder, and will charge accordingly. You won't get the same rate as they will give a builder for whom they do regular work.

You may be able to buy some things well, but remember that saving twenty or thirty dollars on a toilet pan isn't a big percentage of a couple of hundred thousand :eek: .

So... enjoy it, put your heart into it and get a great deal of satisfaction at the end, but don't do it to save money.

Cheers,

P

Hi Rod,
As midge said, don't do it for the money. I am not a builder, but have been an owner builder. You will end up with a better job..not to mention the satisfaction.

Do your homework and plan. In my building, I also planned and allowed for future maintenance so I could keep the building looking fresh al the time.

You will require local council inspections. Most of these dudes are good. Go out of your way to show them you are doing things correctly. If they have doubts and get their back up, they can make life hell.

Good luck and take your time.

Conwood

I actually work (yes I do work) for the Building Services Authority in Brisbane and our website has a fair bit of info for owner builders. It might not all apply in WA but most of it is pretty commonsense stuff. If you follow the link http://www.bsa.qld.gov.au/consumer/ you'll find a series of Fact Sheets etc which may help. Best wishes.

Graeme Carson

Hi Rob1949,

My wife and I Were ownerbuilders about 3 years ago, We bulit our own home.

We got a brickie in, in which my wife helped with the bricks, we did all the plumbing, ( we got quoted 12500 for the plumbing we did it for 3000 ), elec work ( then got a A grade elec to check and sign off, we helped a chippy with the major frame work.

My wife did all the plastering, skirts etc.

we had a quote off 125000 for a builder to do it to lock up only.

We did the whole thing to moving in with no more to do for the same price that he quoted for lock up only.

It is not easy, but a great learning experience, plus you end up with lots of tools

It took us about 7 mths to do. No regrets at all.

We saved heaps because we did most of it ourselfs and that is where you will save money.

Cheers Guy

For you Mr Midge.










Al

Hey Oz! What is it you linked to that takes half an hour not to load?

P
(who can't even get the confused smiley to load!!)

Must be your Mac.....

Al

hi rod, really envy you doing this. never did it myself but wish i had. every success with project and enjoy you dream home. Dont cockup the workshop whatever you do.
beejay1

Originally Posted by Dean

Maybe someone else in the know can confirm the time period there. But just something to consider.

Six years in Victoria, counted from the date of certificate of occupancy issued by council. Not 6 years and 1 day. DAMHIK.

I believe that it also covers major renovations.


Peter.

Hi rod1949,

Working in my position in government (basically for the Board that will give you your O/B certificate), I've seen and dealt with numerous owner builders. To this number I've seen double the amount of people who, when provided with all the info up front, turn to a registered builder to handle the work for them from the start.

Firstly, should you wish to find out some basic info, try the courses offered by Midland Tafe or Home Base Expo. In addition, check out your legal restrictions - by this I mean the following: no selling the property for 3 years, no building another property under an O/B licence for 6 years, and then there's the killer for most owner builders - HII.

Home Indemnity Insurance needs to be provided to subsequent owners should you sell the house within 7 years. With only three HII providers available, most O/B's find it extremely difficult (read nearly impossible) to get this insurance, especially after the work has been completed. Look into this aspect from the start - it could save you a lot of pain down the track, for though most O/B's want to build their long-term home, circumstances change all the time.

As others have said, don't build for money - builders get wholesale prices unavailable to you, subbies charge you "retail" rates, and inevitable delays end up costing you money by the day.

All is not gloom and doom however - many O/B's end up with their dream home at a budget they started out with. Do your research beforehand, deal well with the local authority, organise your subbies in advance (with paperwork in place to protect yourself) and you should be right.

In case you wanted more info, check out www.brb.org.au or feel free to send me a private message.

Good luck with it, Craig.

Thankyou Fella's. Much appreciated, you have all provided invaluable information. We are both going to an OB seminar this coming Saturday put on by Home Base.

See ya's

Rod

Hi Rod,
We have been owner building our house in North Perth for 15 months now and have found the task both challenging and rewarding. We had several builders have a look and quote on the council approved plans but only one got back to us with a figure ($190K + GST to lock-up), anyway we went ahead and did the OB thing and are a bit past lock-up stage now (plastering, tiling completed) and have landscaped the back yard for less than $100K.
One of the major things I would recommend is to make sure that you have really good working drawings. This will save you lots of hassles with the tradies. The person you get to do your drawings needs to fully understand building codes, quantity surveying, standard sizes for slabs, brickwork, plasterboard sheeting etc. In hind sight, I wish I have put more time and money into this part of our project and spent lots of time with the drafty asking Q's. Building industry is still buzzing in Perth so you will find that you have to 'hunt' trades people and be prepared to ring at leased 10 to ask for a quote because only 4 will show up and only one might quote, then start ringing around again.
I would be happy to chat with you more about our experiences if you want to contact me through the personal info section of this site.
Good luck
Todd

Thanks Todd. With the plans/specs I am determined for the drafty/architec to provide full details and not just make reference to comply with some deemed to comply code or manual. This will be spelt out up front and if they're not prepared to comply then we'll leave or show them the door.

We might need to sell our house 5 years after an extension. Has anyone sucessfully got HII as and O/B? Is so where from and how did it work out?

Cheers,

http://www.austhomewarranty.com.au/

Originally Posted by rod1949

I am determined for the drafty/architec to provide full details and not just make reference to comply with some deemed to comply code or manual. This will be spelt out up front and if they're not prepared to comply then we'll leave or show them the door.

Why dont you get the drafty/architect to build the house for you as well. Part of what you are paying a builder for is his/her knowledge of the relevant codes and manuals.

As an owner builder, you are taking on that responsability so it is up to you to familiarise yourself with the relevant codes and manuals or use experienced subbies. Good luck finding a drafty/architect who can and/or will provide "full details" for you to build from.

I bought a 1926 Cal Bungalow in September of last year that for all intents and purposes pretty much needs rebuilding. I briefly looked into OB thinking that I am pretty handy and how hard can it be? While the building part is probably not so bad, it's the knowledge of all the relevant regs that scared me off. That and the time that I would have to devote to the project. By staying in my current full time job plus doing some extra freelance stuff I do, I could make far more than what I could expect to save in doing all of the work on the house myself.

In the end, I have contracted a builder to do all of the major structural work (removing a few walls, small extension), electrical and plumbing. While I would liked to 'dabble' in each of these to increase my knowledge, in the interest of getting into the house some time this century, I am reasonably comfortable with my decision.

I have been lucky enough to find a builder who seems reasonably happy to leave a lot of the work to me - demolition, all of the internal fit out, reclad the entire house etc etc, which is more than enough to keep me entertained and make feel like I have made a significant contribution to our first home.

That said, he was supposed to start 3 weeks ago and I am yet to see him! - testament to the current building situation in Victoria.

I guess what i am trying to say is that sometimes somewhere in the middle might be a good option between doing it all yourself, or doing none of it. But I guess it would have a lot to do with your motivations as to which path you choose.

Best of luck!

Rod,
I did the owner - builder experience in 1990. It tooK 10 months till we moved in. There is lots to tell and you have heard lots already from forum members.
We bought a kit home (Conifer Craft) which is supposed to sit on a flat block but we had a downstairs included because we are on a slope. In the end it was very rewarding and people still can't believe me when i say 'I built it'.
The mistakes I can live with, mine and the subbies but they are inconvenient. The great advantage you have here is that you can ask questions on the forum. I would have killed for that!!!
Some observations or suggestions from someone who has done it tough:
* If SWMBO offers to do something, hold her to it (especially if painting is in the equation)
* Subbies really need watching and be prepared to ask questions
* Don't be afraid to ask a subbie to 'do it again'; if it is not right
* Make it possum proof (see other threads)
* Make it rat proof
*When choosing colours (roof etc) project ahead. grey is neutral but at we have all been through the mission brown, mist green.... eras
*SWMBO will never be happy with your work (as stated above) but use this criticism (objective encouragement) to refine your skills. Chances are if she says it's on an angle, it probably is and other people will notice it.

My kit came with some chisels, a B&D 71/2 in saw and planer, hammer and level. Too late I bought a drop saw and after it was all finished i bought a router and Triton workcentre. The order is really mixed up there in hindsight. How I ripped timber with a circular saw, I don't know.
Best of luck in whatever you decide and keep us informed.
Carry Pine

My DIY building experience started when I was 17 and spent 9 summers in a row helping build a Church camp site on Lake Victoria in Gippsland. In my late 20's I build a log cabin from a kit on a couple of acres at Harcourt in central Victoria. Then the big challenge - a 35 square house at Torquay. I was told labour was half the cost of building, but add to that savings on materials like hand cleaning 22,000 second hand bricks that came up fantastically in the finished house ($1100) Downgraded oregan for framing at half the price of pine. A fellow Scout leader was a plumber who lent me any specialst equipment and talked me through the difficult bits (we were on tank water so didn't need a licenced plumber). An electritian friend who checked and signed off on my wiring. A builder supply yard operator who was a friend of my brother who let me open a tradies account. On and on the savings accumilated. Only subbies I used were the brickie (I laboured for him) the roofers, the concreters and the plasterers, everything else I did myself total $43,000 plus $16,500 for the 17 acres. Sold it 5 years later for $450,000 -

Go for it - it will amaze you what "bargains" crop up when you start looking.


David L
PS in case your wondering - I'm a Pharmacist by profession and was able to work weekends and a couple of nights to keep the days free to work on the house.

In regard to saving money. As my useless plumber would say "you don't save 30% by being an owner-builder, you earn 30%'...... gotta be willing to eaarn it. The money we saved by being an OB enabled us to get top notch everything eg $35k kitchen instead of $15k one, designer lighting etc

Tony

Thought I'd give this a bump. We've just moved into a renovator's delight, with the plan of knocking the back room off and extending a bit. Our draftsman ball-parked $150k (finished stage, hand over the key and walk right in).

I'm keen to go the owner-builder route, and do plan to do a hell of a lot of it myself (with help from a few willing mates) - especially as we don't have that much to spend.

Looking at how much I've saved doing even basic stuff so far (repairing the floor myself, damp-proofing, etc, I'm sure I could get it down to $100k - does this sound reasonable or am I kidding myself?

Hi TJAY

If you are willing to put a LOT of work into it and you have some basic skills and nothing major goes wrong, then you can definately save a significant amount.

The best thing you can do is draw up what you want, then start to build a budget in maybe in Excel. There are plenty of places to find ball park figures for each of things you need to do, plus the materials etc. Put a column for the cost if you did it and another if a tradie did it.

You will start to see what is possible for you to do and what isn't. You should also get the difference in cost at the end. The other very important thing you need to consider is a column for the amount of days you estimate for each item to. A tradie will do it much quicker than you and you probably only have weekends? Add all the times up and make sure that your marriage can handle it!

I fully agree with this from above - "you don't save 30% by being an owner-builder, you earn 30%'...... gotta be willing to eaarn it". It is certainly a second job ... but very rewarding (at times).

Feel free to contact me if I can help further as I am part way through this process and there ar eplenty of considerations and things that I have learnt.

Got to admit, the real reason I want to do it is because I've never done something like this before, until a month or so ago I'd never picked up a power saw, now I'm walking on my brand new bedroom floor that my brother and I laid, and the rest of the house's floorboards that I repaired (when one floor guy told me to rip the lot up and start again).

I really am 'delighted to be renovating!'.

I think that's a great reason. I went into it not to save money but because I wanted to know if I could do it. To some extent it is very rewarding but in other ways it is very stressful.

Do it because you enjoy it and take heps of photos, plan as best you can and you'll be right.

This site will be the best resource you could find.

Dear all, I'm the instigator of this post. The house is at lock-up with a lot of finishing work to be done.

In the not to distant future I'll post the the experience, which overall has been fantastic.

Cheers
Rod