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fence down middle of driveway

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  1. #1
    Senior Member jackiew's Avatar
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    Default fence down middle of driveway

    My colleague wants to put up a fence between her property and her neighbours property. There is currently no fence dividing the concrete driveways to the two houses.

    The length of the proposed fence is 8m.
    The proposed height of the fence is 2m. It will consist of merbau planks installed vertically with a gap of about one finger width.

    One end of the fence will end close to but not at the junction of the driveway with the street. The post on that corner will need to be fairly sturdy as she hopes to put a roller door across the bottom of the driveway - apparently the council are happy about this provided that the door ( and the end of fence) is set back slightly from the pavement - presumably to improve visability of pedestrians.

    My colleague has been having problems getting quotes for the work which she is comfortable with - no shows or show and no quote or discrepancies between quotes.

    Her husband wonders if he can do some or all of the job himself but he isn't sure what the best way would be to fix the posts into the concrete driveways - bearing in mind that a roller door has to mount on one post and that tall fence panels can take a bit of battering by the wind ( and the last thing he wants is the lot collapsing on either his car, the neighbours car or a passing pedestrian).

    They are not sure how the neighbours will react to any solution which might crack the concrete in their driveway.

    I get the impression that he doesn't own a great deal in the way of tools so would need to hire anything out of the ordinary.

    So how would you go about installing the posts?
    no-one said on their death bed I wish I spent more time in the office!

  2. #2
    Apprentice (new member) Lucas's Avatar
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    if you want to cut the concrete the neatest way i'd say would be to core cut the concrete (like a big hole saw) a concrete cutter pro could do this
    Lucas
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    Destroy all the evidence that shows you tired

  3. #3
    1K Club Member journeyman Mick's Avatar
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    Jackie,
    he'll need to cut a 600 x 600 hole in the concrete and dig down 900 or so. Pour a concrete footing in this and stand a 100 x 100 x 3 gal square hollow section steel post in it. The post should have a couple of bits of rebar welded to it before hand that will hold it in the concrete. He'll also need to weld a cap on top once it's been cut off at the right height. Most roller doors need at least 100mm mounting surface - 50mm each for the track and the roller support bracket. If he doesn't own much in the way of tools then chances are he's not much of a handyman. Probably better off leaving the post and roller door mounting to a contractor. For the fence he'll need a shovel, crow bar, wheelbarrow, cement mixer (or larry), tape measure, level and string line. Also a saw, compressor and nail gun.

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  4. #4
    Diamond Member Barry_White's Avatar
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    Jackie

    If I was doing it I would be cutting square holes in the concrete and dig holes in the dirt underneath at least 600mm deep and concrete the posts in and finish the holes flush with the driveway with concrete.

    If they are going to use timber posts for the fence I would tend to use steel RHS for the roller door posts.

    With the roller door they will need a minimum of 100mm clearance from the fence to the edge of the roller door opening for the guide and the RD bracket so they would probably need a double post at the roller door
    Regards Bazza

    Skype Username: bazzabushy

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    The views expressed by the poster are general in nature and any advice should be taken in this vein. The poster accepts no responsibility if this advice is used. When undertaking any work personal professional advice should be sought from suitably qualified persons in the field of work being undertaken.


  5. #5
    A Member of the Holy Trinity echnidna's Avatar
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    and a strong back!!
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    Bob Thomas

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  6. #6
    Diamond Member Barry_White's Avatar
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    Beat me to it Mick with much more detail.
    Regards Bazza

    Skype Username: bazzabushy

    "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards."
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    The views expressed by the poster are general in nature and any advice should be taken in this vein. The poster accepts no responsibility if this advice is used. When undertaking any work personal professional advice should be sought from suitably qualified persons in the field of work being undertaken.


  7. #7
    Pancakeus Incredibulus vsquizz's Avatar
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    The guys have got it covered pretty well Jackie just a couple of thoughts:

    a) In most places in Australia 1.8 metres high is the max for a dividing fence without special approval from the council.

    b) If the case of an accident involving the fence you may be liable (whoever puts it up) but your exposure is increased if you put it up yourself and the structure is found to be wanting.

    c) and as already pointed out the concrete driveway is very unlikely to have sufficient foundation for fence posts so this is why the guys are recommending against just bolting directly to it.

    d) I recently hired a wet core drill (127mm dia) for a day and it cost me $160.00 including the new bit. Coates Hire wanted mobs more. I used it to drill the holes for my colourbond fence posts.

    Hope this helps

    Cheers
    Squizzy

    "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" {screamed by maths teacher in Year 8}

  8. #8
    Senior Member jackiew's Avatar
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    thanks guys, i've passed the information on.

    question on my own account re this ... for a 600x600 hole with a 127mm diameter drill bit presumably you drill a succession of holes and then smash out the bits that are left ( bit like making a mortise ) ?
    no-one said on their death bed I wish I spent more time in the office!

  9. #9
    Diamond Member Barry_White's Avatar
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    Jackie

    To do a 600mm x 600mm hole in the concrete it would be better to hire a concrete cutting saw and cut a square hole and then chop the centre out with a demolition hammer which you can hire also.
    Regards Bazza

    Skype Username: bazzabushy

    "Experience is a hard teacher because she gives the test first, the lesson afterwards."
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    The views expressed by the poster are general in nature and any advice should be taken in this vein. The poster accepts no responsibility if this advice is used. When undertaking any work personal professional advice should be sought from suitably qualified persons in the field of work being undertaken.


  10. #10
    Member Farm boy's Avatar
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    why not dyna bolt saddles onto the concrete save a lot of digging

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackiew
    They are not sure how the neighbours will react to any solution which might crack the concrete in their driveway.

    You might also advise them to discuss the whole fence with their neighbours and get their consent to what is proposed in writing, preferably in a properly drawn up deed.

    Again speaking from experiece :eek: what is proposed is different from what is specified as an acceptable and enforceable fence in terms of the fencing act ( re height and type of paling and gap between ) so your friends will have to bear the full cost of the fence.

    I also believe that without consent at a later stage your neighbour can apply to the court for an order to make the structure comply with the fencing act and if there is no suitable binding deed a subsequent owner (read developer) can do so, notwithstanding your friends having obtained a council permit.

    Your friends would be well advised to seek legal advice of a specialist lawyer and have a contractor to build the fence rather than DIY because of the public liability exclusion provisions of their insurance if it is not build correctly. Thus if it is build DIY the fence will need to be build according to proper engineers specifications and their supervision if the insurance is not to be voided.


    Peter.

  12. #12
    1K Club Member journeyman Mick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farm boy
    why not dyna bolt saddles onto the concrete save a lot of digging
    1)Not strong enough
    2)The bolts will corrode unless they're stainless
    3)If you use stailess fixings your brackets will eventually corrode instead

    Result:Roller door and fence fall over, probably on top of a litigation specialist (Murphy's law).

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  13. #13
    Pancakeus Incredibulus vsquizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Farm boy
    why not dyna bolt saddles onto the concrete save a lot of digging
    c) and as already pointed out the concrete driveway is very unlikely to have sufficient foundation for fence posts so this is why the guys are recommending against just bolting directly to it.
    I have to ask, why 600 x 600 holes?? wouldn't it be more like 200mm dia hole x 600mm deep..room for the post and concrete?? Maybe I missed something. I know what Mick is recommending for the roller door but the rest are just fence posts right. And BTW Mick is just referring to the size of the hole cut in the concrete, so you can dig a hole for the post, not the total size of the footing:eek: which would be a lot of concrete

    Cheers
    Squizzy

    "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" {screamed by maths teacher in Year 8}

  14. #14
    Pancakeus Incredibulus vsquizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackiew
    thanks guys, i've passed the information on.

    question on my own account re this ... for a 600x600 hole with a 127mm diameter drill bit presumably you drill a succession of holes and then smash out the bits that are left ( bit like making a mortise ) ?
    Jackie, that was just an example I was giving of the costs and the gear you can get. I depends on the size of the posts which are chosen but the point is the gear is available for DIY. Barry's on the right track for that size hole.

    Cheers
    Squizzy

    "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" {screamed by maths teacher in Year 8}

  15. #15
    1K Club Member journeyman Mick's Avatar
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    I'd go minimum 600 x 600 x 900 for the roller door footing. A closed roller door would have alot of wind loading on it and unless you make the adjacent fence panel a bracing wall somehow the post won't have any bracing so it will need to rely on the mass of the footings to keep it from leaning over. For the fence posts a 150 x 150 hole about 450 deep would probably suffice. I'd cast a stirrup, fishplate or "U" bracket into the concrete to take the post. I'm sure the council would require an engineered drawing for the roller door, even if they didn't it would be advisable to get one. That way, if anything untoward does ever happen there's somebody else to get sued rather than your colleague

    Mick
    "If you need a machine today and don't buy it,

    tomorrow you will have paid for it and not have it."

    - Henry Ford 1938

  16. #16
    Pancakeus Incredibulus vsquizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by journeyman Mick
    A closed roller door would have alot of wind loading on it and unless you make the adjacent fence panel a bracing wall somehow the post won't have any bracing so it will need to rely on the mass of the footings to keep it from leaning over.
    Mick
    Sorry Mick, I assumed there would be a wall or summit on tother side of the roller.

    Cheers
    Squizzy

    "It is better to be ignorant and ask a stupid question than to be plain Stupid and not ask at all" {screamed by maths teacher in Year 8}

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by vsquizz
    I have to ask, why 600 x 600 holes?? wouldn't it be more like 200mm dia hole x 600mm deep..room for the post and concrete?? Maybe I missed something. I know what Mick is recommending for the roller door but the rest are just fence posts right. And BTW Mick is just referring to the size of the hole cut in the concrete, so you can dig a hole for the post, not the total size of the footing:eek: which would be a lot of concrete

    Cheers
    It's the sideways restraint of the soil against the concrete that will stop the whole thing from being blown over and as soil is relatively soft stuff particularly when wet, a large bearing area , meaning 600x 600 hole , is needed in order to achieve the adequate restraint .

    Peter

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