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second hand shed dilemma

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  1. #1
    ajm
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    Default second hand shed dilemma

    does anybody know how we can get around not having plans for a second hand shed we have just bought? we are in brisbane. the new shed is a colourbond, 6m square double garage made from strammit steel.

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    Hi, Does the person who sold you the shed have the original engineering drawings etc?

    Do you know the company who originally supplied the shed.

    cheers, Dave
    Worth doing? Then it's worth doing well!
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  3. #3
    ajm
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    Dave,

    I initially asked the shed owner for anything they might have on it. However, they bought their house with shed already there and didn't have anything. So, I photographed the labels on the shed before taking it down. On these were the details of the selling company (VGB Quality Sheds), the steel provider (Stramit), and the bloke to whom it was originally delivered. These stickers also contained work order numbers, Purchase Order number and the type of shed it was (these were not 100% legible). I rang VGB who no longer deal with Stramit and haven't done for many years, and they suggested i talk to Stramit who supplied the shed in its kit form. So i then spoke to Stramit who said that as they supplied the materials in kit form it was the job of the resellers to provide the "paperwork" to the purchaser. Now, way back when, they probably did. trouble is that being a while ago, they are not prepared or not able to search for the particulars relating to this shed. Back to square one...

    we have got an existing 6X9 on our block that we plan to remove when we extend the house. I wonder if it would get by the council if we requested approval to relocate the existing shed to the new spot. then, in the dead of night, while all good kiddies are tucked up in their beds, i surreptitiously remove the existing shed and, instead of re erecting part of it on the new spot, put up the new shed on the new spot. voila!

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    ajm,
    On some of the products should be a Stramit stick on label - it will have either a job number or invoice number with clients name and delivery address - this may even be the original shed supplier. Take a copy of the docket and go to Stramit who may be able to assist in the origin of the order for the shed. The products manufactured by Stramit, probably was done for a Shed Supplier (most likely Shed Boss or Fair Dinkum Sheds) and these are the companies that would have the original engineering - but be careful - the shed may have been designed for less wind, locality conditions than where you are now!

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    ajm,

    Sorry, missed your answer above. VGB Quality Sheds are now with Ranbuild (part of Lysaght) and they should still have the records for the shed engineering when they sourced the materials off Stramit. VGB should try and look for the original details to help you out - I would call them again. They would have different engineering now being part of Ranbuild - but should have copies of engineering from prior (at least 10 years or so)!

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    Don't confuse them with talk of Stramit. Some people just focus on the word that gives them an 'out'. Simply state the date of purchase of the shed (presumably trackable from the stuff you have recorded) and any invoice numbers you can find. If the first person is unhelpful, then ask to speak to their supervisor or the person in charge of accounts. Good luck!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm View Post
    .... it was the job of the resellers to provide the "paperwork" to the purchaser. Now, way back when, they probably did. trouble is that being a while ago, they are not prepared or not able to search for the particulars relating to this shed.
    Essentially correct, Whilst Ranbuild resellers sell Ranbuild buildings made from Lysaght materials, the engineering is supplied by Ranbuilds engineers not the shed sellers or lysaghts. For example if ABC123 sheds was selling Brand 6789's design sheds made from Stramit Material, its up to Brand 6789's engineers to do the engineering , not stramit who provides materials.

    They key here I would think is to find out what Brand of shed VGB Quality sheds were selling back then, when your 6 x 6 was made. If that Brand is operating still, speak to the Brands head office for advice.

    I understand your midnight swap idea and it has possibilities as an idea, the concern with anything like this though is of course safety and safety for your neigbours and ensuring that proper construction and the suitability of the shed for its use and location. eg, correct slab/footings and hold downs...etc
    Worth doing? Then it's worth doing well!
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    ajm
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    black cat, roofer, i will try them again tomorrow. good idea not to mention stramit when i do.

    shedblog: what do you mean by "brand"? other than VGB and STramit, the only other recognizable words are BAHRS SCRUB, but i thought this might have been the colour (its sort of khaki)

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    ajm

    Bahrs Scrub is a suburb of Brisbane near Logan I think - never was a colorbond or colourguard colour called Bahrs Scrub! VGB would have been selling their own brand or part of a distributor before Ranbuild. Once again they should have the engineering plans somewhere - give them the address from the place you got the shed!
    Good Luck

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm View Post
    does anybody know how we can get around not having plans for a second hand shed we have just bought?
    Presumably, the seller would have had the shed approved when it was orginally constructed. Maybe the seller or their local council will have copies of the documentation?
    There is no middle ground between facts and fallacies - argumentum ad temperantiam

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm View Post
    shedblog: what do you mean by "brand"?
    Ranbuild is a brand, Fair Dinkum is a Brand, WideSpan Sheds is a Brand, Many shed sellers sell a brand of shed.

    My old Business was called Kempsey Sheds & Carports and we sold the Ranbuild brand of products.

    I was wondering if VBG sheds sold a particular brand back then and if so what brand.

    It is possible that when the shed was first installed that documents were lodged with council. Though I suspect that any request to council for copies will be met with seach costs.
    Worth doing? Then it's worth doing well!
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisp View Post
    Presumably, the seller would have had the shed approved when it was orginally constructed. Maybe the seller or their local council will have copies of the documentation?
    This is a viable option, if it had shire approval when originally erected. The shire should have a copy of the relevant plans and engineering. I am not sure if you could get a copy though if the application was not in your name???

    Your best bet is to try the first point of sale first (VGB sheds). If they are an agent it may come back to the principal supplier (Ranbuild etc).

    Stramit are a dead end as they are simply the steel supplier providing steel cut and delivered to VGB's/Ranbuilds order.

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    ajm
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    thanks everybody. shedblog, the brand was Aus-Steel. i actually spoke to the owner of VGB and he actually knew the exact shed I was talking about. He gave me the name of a fella at Aus Steel who was very helpful. i have sent him a swag of photos of the labels off the shed bits and he has said that he will try to find what we need. will keep you posted

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    Thats good news, cheers, Dave
    Worth doing? Then it's worth doing well!
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    ajm
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    and for all interested... its been three months and countless emails/telephone and still nothing. Like i said above, the basta-rd knows the shed i am talking about and has recently told me that while we wouldn't be able to get the original instructions/plans, he would send us some generic ones instead. How hard is it to just send an email with a picture of some random 6 * 6 shed with a list of instructions on how to erect? its not like we are asking him to put his useless name on it for council approvals or the like.

    on that note, given we will need a form 15 to certify that its structurally sound, has anybody managed to get their shed certified without original plans or the like?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ajm View Post
    he would send us some generic ones instead.
    Hi AJM,

    Any idea if he meant generic engineering? A lot of shed engineering is in a pretty generic state, with a grid, that when you follow shed size/span/height and in what environment the shed is located, generates section sizes/thicknesses.

    Most shed construction manuals are generic , whilst they can be specific to a type of shed, they are then, general in their instructions (not specific to the actual configuration).

    cheers, Dave
    Worth doing? Then it's worth doing well!
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    ajm,

    Getting to worry stage!
    You said
    he would send us some generic ones instead
    - have these got engineering certification?

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    ajm
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    Dave, i have downloaded some slab and footing instructions from Stratco and think these might suit to get the right size of slab. I am an analyst by trade and get nervous without exact numbers to follow. the shed is the type that has the colourbond sheets fitting down over the outside edge of the slab, and not the type that has the sheets finishing on top of the slab. as such, i really want to make sure that my slab is exactly the right size. if its too big, i would have to cut the bottoms off all the sheets. if its too small, i would then have to fill it in, I suspect.

    now that brings me to a good question. how is the floor done for these sheds? when we took it down from its original location, the floor looked as though it had all been poured at one time and then the shed built on top of it. if that is the case, the slab must be exactly the same size as the shed from inside wall to inside wall. or is the floor poured after the shell of the shed is erected (using piers/footings for the upright posts - that is, get the piers in the right place/height/etc, erect the shed frame, form up around the base, then pour into the formed up area, lastly, clad the walls when floor is dry)?

    hmmm...

    and Roofer, no engineering certification. no form 15. another good question. how would one suggest we obtain this without the plans/instructions mentioned above that are particular to that brand of shed? any ideas?

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    Hi AJM , the first method is often the preferred method. Forming up to create a slab that the sheeting essentially fits down the side of.

    When I lived in South Australia the shed companies seemed to prefer the method of building on pads or placing columns in the ground and pouring the slab inside the completed building. This is not really a recommended method in my belief if wet concrete is going to come in contact with the wall sheeting. (corrosive)
    Worth doing? Then it's worth doing well!
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    AJM,
    I can see two parts of this problem you've got!
    PROBLEMS:
    1. The engineering certificate for the shed design - need to obtain!
    2. Assembly instructions for the shed, slab etc - need to have exact measurements!
    I was going to include warranty - but being a 2nd hand shed - this would not be avaialble.

    ANSWERS:
    1. The engineering certificate, Form 15 etc - you must obtain the general design drawings of this (or a generic shed of the same width & height & bay lengths) plus do footing drawings that are appropiate, drawing details of site location (boundry to next door etc & house), concrete slab details & reinforcing including hold down bolts etc plus a description or details on clolour, height, size etc and then last is the water disposal from downpipes. Once you have done this - approach an engineer to certify all drawings and submit to council. Do you have a bill of quanties? If not list all the components and itemise on a spreadsheet etc.
    2. Since you have the shed & all components - start with one portal frame and erect on the ground - to get the exact width (outside) to get your 1st two footings done! Get the footing poured & inspected for reinforcing etc - (only these first two) and then attach the portal frame (with lots of bracing) - keeping in mind safety of others - you are effectively responsible for this construction! Then you have the basis of the layout and can continue on. Pour the slab (with boxing) when all portals are erected (and bracing still) but do not pour the slab using the colourbond sheets (they will rust).
    I have included a really simple sketch of the 1st portal to explain.
    shed-secondhand.jpgJust get all the measurements off the one protal frame!

    Also I would get some quotes off sheed companies for the same size shed - they will supply heaps off info you can use - plus ring up and ask about footing sizes, reinforcing, basic intruction plans etc.

    But the main thing is to get the drawings for the shed certified first, then council approval! Keep us informed.

  21. #21
    Old Chippy 6K
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    Do we know it is a portal frame shed - might well be a simple steel frame with steel trusses - or another design. Another costly 'bargain' it looks like sadly.
    Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

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    Bloss,

    You're right - I assumed that when ajm asked about pouring the slab after - you couldn't do this with a steel frame (stud) - unless a footing at slab height had been laid.

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    ajm
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    guys, its a portal frame shed. i am aiming for an on slab erection. (at my advanced stage of maturity, that still makes me giggle!). i don't want to have to do faff around too much. i am planning a sit in visit to the shed guy mentioned above sometime in the new year as i am changing jobs and will have the time to do it. even thinking of it now, it makes my blood boil to be ignored - the tosser should have just said no in the first place rather than trying to be a hero.

    back to slabs (as opposed to slobs): i was planning to concrete around the outside of the shed anyway, so maybe i do the big slab, set up a portal to get the measurements, then box up for the actual shed floor, pour the top slab, then erect the shed on top of it.

    how does that sound?

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    If you wanted to do a diagram, showing

    a) portal column height
    b) width of shed from outside of wall tophat to outside of wall tophat
    c) length of shed
    d) pitch of roof
    e) openings and approximate size and location of

    I could do you a plan from our shed program including column, sheet, girt and purlin layout. This may assist in piecing together what you have; as compared to what we would normally supply as a "purchased kit".

    I could also give you a copy of our erect manual. Bear in mind there are some differences in bracketry, and how these sheds are designed but maybe this will help.

    regards

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    ajm
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    pinger - thats very decent of you. its my sons 6th birthday party this weekend so we are going gangbusters to get that organised. so, i will have a crack at the measurements on sunday. i took a load of them, mostly relating to the placement of the "feet" of the portal uprights. i will have to guestimate the pitch of the roof based on the angle of the connector plate at the top of each portal upright. its not rocket science, right...

    anyway, thanks for offering to help.

    cheers, ajm

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    No dramas, I will wait for your dimensions.

  27. #27
    ajm
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    pinger,

    the material lengths (so far):

    Stramit C15012 * 6 (portal uprights - Length stamped: 2390mm)
    Stramit C15012 * 6 (portal roof members - Length stamped: 2836mm)
    Stramit C15024 * 2 (front and rear portal mid support - length stamped: 3098mm)
    Stramit E10010 * 2 (eave purlins, stamped length 6000mm - but actually only 5980mm)

    The apex and knee plates are all stamped Aus-Steel APC 150-15 (3 of these) or KPC 150-15 ( 6 of these)

    All top hat is 70mm high.

    Personal Access Door - 890mm * 2040mm, made of 25SHS with a cross member at height 1010mm (centre bottom rail to centre mid rail)

    Aluminium horizontal sliding window - 1170 * 900 (this is the size of the cut out required in the cladding wall)

    I will get more details tonight.

    cheers so far.

    ajm

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    Hi ajm,

    I have attached a:
    • Tophat and sheet layout as I would design the shed
    • Portal dimensions that our computer throws in that configuration
    • Pick list per above

    Let me know if this is useful. If you want a copy of our erect manual I could probably send that via private email.






  29. #29
    ajm
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    pinger, these are great. many thanks. i actually had a stroke of luck pre christmas and found someone at an aus-steel distributor who did me up a full set of plans based on all the measurements. I had all but given up on them but was ringing to find out the angle of the knee plates and got put through to a regional office. that made all the difference. now, we will be ready for the coming year - submit house plans to council including new shed!!

  30. #30
    Old Chippy 6K
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    Ah - good that it looks like it'll be OK. A real bargain perhaps - good luck with the build.
    Advice from me on this forum is general and for guidance based on information given by the member posing the question. Not to be used in place of professional advice from people appropriately qualified in the relevant field. All structural work must be approved and constructed to the BCA or other relevant standards by suitably licensed persons. The person doing the work and reading my advice accepts responsibility for ensuring the work done accords with the applicable law.

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    That is good news ajm, glad to hear you can use what you have.

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