making external ledged and braced doors internal!

**paulsandham** · 28th Oct 2004, 02:05 AM

like a fool i saw and bought 8 standard sized external framed and ledged doors to put in my about to be completed home. I have been told since that i will not be able to fit them into the already fitted standard internal door frames (even though they are the right size 6' 6" 1981mm by 2' 9" 838mm) are the doommongers correct or is there a way rouind this? :confused:

**seriph1** · 28th Oct 2004, 07:40 AM

Hi Paul and welcome to the forum! You'll find us an odd lot (perhaps akin to the doors you bought)

I can't see any reason why a door of the right size wouldnt fit an appropriate opening but without seeing the application and doors its very hard to advise - when you say framed and ledged, do you mean external Californian Bungalow doors? If you can, take a pic on low res and either post it here or send it to me at steve_is@graphic-designer.com and I will resize it and post it here.

BTW what suburb are you in and what style is the home? If it's a new home, maybe you have a sales pic or two that would help give an indication.

Cheers and have fun

**ozwinner** · 28th Oct 2004, 07:47 AM

Hi

I thought the standard door height is 2040mm.
Also external doors are thicker, but I cant see why the thickness would stop you from hanging them.
Maybe you mean that they came already hung with jambs, in which case they would have a threshhold on them, not too good for interanly.

Al :confused:

**bitingmidge** · 28th Oct 2004, 08:10 AM

Interesting!

Standard doors are indeed 820 x 2040.

In the good old days we always used a 2'10" door on the outside and a 2'8" inside.. I have no idea why, and the height from memory was 6'8".

You really seem to have bought a bitsa!!

But if they fit, where's the problem?

Over to the door guys!

P

**silentC** · 28th Oct 2004, 08:40 AM

Standard internal doors are 35mm and external are 40mm. If you try to hang a 40mm door in a 35mm frame, either the barrels of the butt hinges are going to have to be housed into the stile, or you'll have 5mm of the hinge sticking out from the jamb.

You might be able to work this to your advantage if you use a parliament style hinge. I think a normal butt hinge sticking out like that will look a bit ordinary. You're going to need more clearance though because the arc of the door swing will be slightly wider as a result of moving the hinge pivot point out.

The other alternative might be to pack the jambs out so that the door rebate is 40mm.

Stick one in the opening and see what it looks like.

**seriph1** · 28th Oct 2004, 08:59 AM

indeedie - 1981mm high is weird! - not an insurmountable problem, but one requiring more thought..... a few years back I "adjusted" a door for a lady (just the door, boys) who wanted to use it internally. It was 70mm too short so I added a piece to the bottom of the door (only fixed to the stile) - not an elegant soultion by any means, but she refused my counsel regarding lowering the frame height and replacing the existing architraves with 165mm Victorian ones, which would've worked perfectly. She said this would damage the walls where I removed the 70mm arks and would cost too much (another $80 for materials+labour)

After I completed the job, she was concerned that the join would show eventually, so I fitted two brass kick plates to the bottom of the door to disguise it - which in the end, cost her more than my proposed method. Looked good though.

**capedcrusader** · 28th Oct 2004, 05:31 PM

Are the internal frames rebated or are the stops planted on - if so take the stops off then hang the doors then fit reduced stops. Would this work?

**journeyman Mick** · 28th Oct 2004, 10:03 PM

Framed and ledged doors are usually hung on scotch "T" hinges because:
a) they're bloody heavy
b)due to their construction a normal butt hinge would either go into the end grain of the rails (no holding power for the screws) or into only one vertical board, which would over time tend to rip the door apart.
Due to their weight they would probably destroy the hinge side jamb on your modern standard doorway - usually 19mm finger joint pine.

Standard doors? that's an oxymoron.
On timber framing they're generally 2040 high but for masonry block 2000.
A "standard" steel frame for a masonry block wall takes a 2000 x 800 door, but there's almost as many non-standard steel frames around as standard ones. Most doors are available in at least 10 or 12 "standard" sizes, and despite the wide range of available sizes I'm often required to cut down doors/plant pieces on/order or make non-standard doors. :confused:

Mick (who just once in his life would like a simple, straight forward job with everything level, plumb, square, true, straight and standard sized and using off the shelf timber, stock and hardware

)

**seriph1** · 28th Oct 2004, 10:16 PM

I'm desperate to know what type of home this is that suits framed and ledged doors internally - can't wait to see pics!

**bitingmidge** · 28th Oct 2004, 11:07 PM

Funny I didn't think twice!

My office of a few years ago, was a cottage in a Brisbane bayside suburb which had a rather unusual history: it had floated down the river in the 1895 flood and was marooned on a sandbank where it was stripped of anything worthwhile.

A couple of entrepenuers(S?) about ten years later floated the shell on logs (which became it's stumps) behind rowing boats and plonked it on a block of land, cobbling it back together with all sorts of bits.

Anyway, all the doors were shockers, ledged and braced bits of anything, that looked like refugees from a pirate ship. I had them stripped and water blasted, then gave them a really thick coat of clear polyu and they looked great. Just like crappy pirate ship dunny doors.

In the back of my scone I'll do it again one day, and do it the same way: second hand painted timber, rough built then stripped and varnished!

No accounting for taste!

Cheers,

P

**silentC** · 29th Oct 2004, 08:05 AM

due to their construction a normal butt hinge would either go into the end grain of the rails (no holding power for the screws) or into only one vertical board, which would over time tend to rip the door apart.

Mick, don't framed and ledged doors have a M/T frame around the outside. I could be wrong but I always thought framed and ledged meant it has stiles and rails with a board skin and ledges in the guts.

My uderstanding is:

Ledged: vertical boards with 3 horizontal ledges (like on a batten door)
Ledged and Braced: vertical boards with 3 horizontal ledges and diagonal braces
Framed and Ledged: Rail and stile frame with vertical board panel and ledges

**bitingmidge** · 29th Oct 2004, 08:26 AM

Absolutely correct Silent, (still can't give you a greenie though!

)

Cheers,

P

**journeyman Mick** · 29th Oct 2004, 11:14 PM

Silent,
you're right of course, I didn't even read it properly!

It's that time of year, the Christmas rush has started (can you build me a kitchen before Christmas?, I just have to have ....... done by Christmas, etc etc) plus I've had a few late nights fighting fires.

Mick the myopic

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making external ledged and braced doors internal!

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