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Replacing old aluminium sliding windows

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  1. #1
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    Default Replacing old aluminium sliding windows

    Hi Guys,

    Needing some help with information around replacing two old sliding widows.
    The current windows do not close or open properly and have huge gaps everywhere.
    I want to remove and replace with a single pane of 10.38 laminated glass ($835.00 each for the glass only)
    Is the aluminium window and the timber frame one complete unit?
    Do I remove the entire thing and have a new window made up?
    Or should just remove the aluminium part, slap in some small timber beading and install the glass pane?
    Any help / ideas appreciated.win1.jpgwin2.jpg

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    Generally the aluminium frame is stapled to the timber reveals and is installed as a complete unit.
    From the look of the era of the house I would suspect old OB hardwood framing which was green when the house was built and would shrink as it dried.
    As the timber reveals are only relatively thin and fixing was by nailing the verticals into the hardwood frame, the shrinkage distorted the reveals and the attached aluminium frames and is likely 90% of the reason for the window gaps and not functioning.

    The timber reveals are not a suitable frame for mounting new glass too. Remove the complete assembly and replace with a complete new window assembly that includes new reveals.

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    Thanks Droog. Looks like I'm up for the cost of a complete window then. What size timbers would we be talking about for a 1.7 x 2.7m solid glass window pane of 10.38 laminated glass?

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    I would defer to a window manufacturer but older windows with glass fitted directly the frame was generally in the order of 40-45mm.
    Newer construction I would suspect would be 19mm reveals with an aluminium extrusion for the glass to be fitted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Remove the complete assembly and replace with a complete new window assembly that includes new reveals.
    How would you do that? My window frame have a flange around the edge and I believe it is fastened to the frame and the window sill and jambs goes up to the frame and the outside is bricked up to the frame and it doesn't leave any room to replace.

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    win3.jpg
    I assume a new window frame is fitted to sit over the top of the sill tiles a bit as per usual?

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    Removed from inside by removing architraves and cutting nail fixings with a demo saw.

    The gaps mentioned, is that house movement distorting the window frame. If so take care with a large fixed glass panel and that movement is allowed for.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Removed from inside by removing architraves and cutting nail fixings with a demo saw.

    The gaps mentioned, is that house movement distorting the window frame. If so take care with a large fixed glass panel and that movement is allowed for.
    But doing that allows removal but you can’t replace it as you can’t get access to the flange as it is covered by brick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    But doing that allows removal but you can’t replace it as you can’t get access to the flange as it is covered by brick.
    Do you mean the flashing or the aluminium fin for the reveals?
    window-xsect.jpg

  10. #10
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    Best bet is to remove the architraves then you can see how much gap was left when the original window with jams was installed as they are usually made loose and packed before nailing through the jams.
    But of course in your situation the new jams will have to be neat to brickwork,sill and head.(can't see the head in pics)
    Once architraves are removed you can get the local window manufacturer to measure and quote.
    They will have people who fit if you don't want to do it yourself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    How would you do that? My window frame have a flange around the edge and I believe it is fastened to the frame and the window sill and jambs goes up to the frame and the outside is bricked up to the frame and it doesn't leave any room to replace.
    Remove arch's, cut nails, remove inwards.
    Install new window from inside, nail through reveals to attach to frame, install arch's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howmanyru View Post
    I assume a new window frame is fitted to sit over the top of the sill tiles a bit as per usual?
    That picture shows why you have a distorted window frame, the OB house frame has shrunk so much that the aluminium channel is now sitting on the sill tiles. It should have clearance.
    New window can be fitted so it is above the sill tiles, or the sill tiles can be removed and then re-set once the new window is in. Check to see if any of the sill tiles are loose, it is common for them to get dislodged because the window frame is pushing down on them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Remove arch's, cut nails, remove inwards.
    Install new window from inside, nail through reveals to attach to frame, install arch's.
    So the windows are not fastened to the outside of the stud?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bros View Post
    So the windows are not fastened to the outside of the stud?
    Usual for the aluminium frame to be attached to timber reveals, nailed or stapled through the fins. The revealed window frame nailed to the studs, not the outside face of the studs. The frame protrudes in front of the house frame same as the brick gap and then bricked around the aluminium frame.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    That picture shows why you have a distorted window frame, the OB house frame has shrunk so much that the aluminium channel is now sitting on the sill tiles. It should have clearance.
    The sill tiles were laid close to the aluminium frame. Normal for that to happen after window installation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    Do you mean the flashing or the aluminium fin for the reveals?
    I must have missed that reply. I never knew how that did it and the drawing explains it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    The sill tiles were laid close to the aluminium frame. Normal for that to happen after window installation.
    I remember an addition on my parents house in OB and the windows were set with the rubber weather strip hanging vertical and still almost half an inch above the sill tiles. Forward 40 years and the aluminium frame is almost like the picture above.

    If the sill tiles are laid close to the frame like the first house I bought most of the sill tiles at the ends are dislodged, aluminium bottom track has around 1/2 inch bulge upwards in the centre and the bottom reveal has a huge slope inwards to the room. All windows in the house were exactly the same.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    I remember an addition on my parents house in OB and the windows were set with the rubber weather strip hanging vertical and still almost half an inch above the sill tiles. Forward 40 years and the aluminium frame is almost like the picture above.

    If the sill tiles are laid close to the frame like the first house I bought most of the sill tiles at the ends are dislodged, aluminium bottom track has around 1/2 inch bulge upwards in the centre and the bottom reveal has a huge slope inwards to the room. All windows in the house were exactly the same.
    In that pic the gap looks okay and the deteriorated weatherstrip has fall. Don't know about Victoria but 40years ago houses were a a mix of KD pine and oregon. Shrinkage wasn't as much a problem as previous construction with green hardwood.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails sill.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    In that pic the gap is okay and the deteriorated weatherstrip has fall. Don't know about Victoria but 40years ago houses were a a mix of KD pine and oregon. Shrinkage wasn't as much a problem as previous construction with green hardwood.
    Much different here in VIC in the 70’s where OB was pretty standard.
    While the photo does show the failing rubber weatherstrip I see the aluminium sitting on the sill tiles on the left and the rubber horizontal, but the rubber hanging vertical on the right indicating about 10mm gap.

    Bet if you put a straight edge on the aluminium channel you will find it bowed up in the centre.

  20. #20
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    I look at the far left and I see a gap, the weatherstrip hides most of that area.
    What is OB?

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    OB hardwood, I believe it stands for Ordinary Building.
    https://robotbuildingsupplies.com.au...-b-hardwood-2/
    Just the green eucalypt hardwood that was used for framing.

    We will have to agree to disagree on the picture unless we get a few other views of it because on the left I see the rubber weatherstrip laying horizontal on the sill tiles due to the aluminium sitting hard on the tiles.

    Added link

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    This is where I see the gap where the weatherstrip has a tear.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails sill1.jpg  

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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    This is where I see the gap where the weatherstrip has a tear.
    And notice how the rubber weatherstrip is horizontal ? Not hanging vertical like on the right hand side.
    Indicates that the sill tiles are much closer to the mounting groove for the rubber strip on the left when compared to the right.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    And notice how the rubber weatherstrip is horizontal ? Not hanging vertical like on the right hand side.
    Indicates that the sill tiles are much closer to the mounting groove for the rubber strip on the left when compared to the right.
    But it would lie flat where it is torn, isn't the open gap obvious. As to where it isn't torn it doesn't look flat to me but the poor resolution would only make that a fair guess.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by phild01 View Post
    But it would lie flat where it is torn, isn't the open gap obvious. As to where it isn't torn it doesn't look flat to me but the poor resolution would only make that a fair guess.
    If it was just lying flat due to the tear then there would be a gap between the rubber and the sill tile if there was significant gap to the aluminium frame. The rubber laying flat without gap shows me there is no gap at the frame. There is a dark shadow which you have circled.

    Having spend considerable time straightening the aluminium frames and reveals in an entire house of similar era in Melbourne the problem is 100% clear to me.
    As I said I think we need to agree to disagree as I cannot see any gap from your explanation in the photo attached.

  26. #26
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    In the circled area what i see is the dark area as the gap. Maybe you see that as the sill tile but what can be seen is the mortar wrapping around the corner of the torn and fallen weatherstrip, the adjoining black area is the gap. Look further along in the other pic and that black area is a match for what can be seen as a gap. I'll leave it at that.

  27. #27
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    Thanks for the replies folks. I had a closer look tonight, part of the aluminium window does dip down behind the sill tiles. The tiles butt up hard against it. So this is like the pic Phild supplied.
    And yes it is bowed up in the middle Droog, good call lol.
    So I guess the new window frame has to sit on top of the sill tiles like the other timber windows in the house. I had a quote today for a fixed window 1.7 x 2.7 with 10.38 laminated glass for $1950.
    So essentially I am being charged about $1200 for 4 x pieces of timber joined in a rectangle, as he would purchase the glass for around $800.
    The window is mountain ash with a merbau sill. Does this price seem right?
    I also need to account for the old window removal and disposal, and installation of new window, adds up fast.
    I reckon I can remove the old window no problems, but will leave the install for someone else. Attachment 131280

  28. #28
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    Default Replacing old aluminium sliding windows

    The glass would be less than $800.

    Anyway, if you’re replacing the window, I’d strongly recommend you consider replacing it with double glazed windows.

    The premium for double glazed is much smaller than it once was.


    alk

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    Just had a quote from a local window supplier for manufacture and install of $10k.
    This is for 2 fixed windows with 10mm laminate 1.7 x 2.7m, aluminium frame and timber reveals. Double glazed adds another $5k.
    Includes scaffolding as the windows are 2m above ground.
    Not sure if this is reasonable, any thoughts?

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    You can get prices for double glazed IGUs at the link below (and then maybe ask for clarification from your supplier ):

    https://www.justritestore.com.au/hom...r-sale-online/

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    win6.jpg

    Thanks for the link, i'll get a quote from them.
    Here is a picture showing the aluminium profile sitting in behind the sill tiles.
    What would be the difficult part in making a rectangular window frame and fitting it into the house framing to receive a glass pane?
    Milling the timber profiles would take some time, shaping the sill, routing a drip edge, etc.
    Any other major difficulties in building your own window and fitting off using wedges and screwing to the house frame?

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    If you are handy and capable as well as having access to the correct tools it is not too difficult at all.
    I have made door and window frames from scratch it is also possible to use off the shelf profiles as a starting point to reduce the amount of machining required.
    https://www.renolink.com.au/138x40x2...SABEgKBYfD_BwE

    Any frame should be capable of supporting itself as a standalone unit, the only wedges needed should be packing for installation purposes. Do not pack across under the sill it should be capable of supporting itself and the glass, packing risks transferring forces from frame movement into the window such as has happened to your aluminium windows. If they were single fixed pane windows like you are planning it is likely the glass would have cracked.

  33. #33
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    Default Replacing old aluminium sliding windows

    Quote Originally Posted by howmanyru View Post
    Just had a quote from a local window supplier for manufacture and install of $10k.
    This is for 2 fixed windows with 10mm laminate 1.7 x 2.7m, aluminium frame and timber reveals. Double glazed adds another $5k.
    Includes scaffolding as the windows are 2m above ground.
    Not sure if this is reasonable, any thoughts?
    Get more quotes.

    Double glazing fixed windows shouldn’t add $5k to the cost over 10mm laminated.

    Double glazed Glass isn’t that expensive

    At 2.7x1.7 you may have to go 6mm glass for double insulated. They are bloody heavy. Window installer may install the frame first and then glaze it afterwards.

    Which state are you in?


    Sent fro

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    Default Replacing old aluminium sliding windows

    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post

    Do not pack across under the sill it should be capable of supporting itself and the glass, packing risks transferring forces from frame movement into the window such as has happened to your aluminium windows. If they were single fixed pane windows like you are planning it is likely the glass would have cracked.
    What do you mean by not packing under the sill?


    Sent

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    I'm in VIC, outer east.

  36. #36
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    Default Replacing old aluminium sliding windows

    I’d get a quote from the following window suppliers:
    Eco Eco
    Yokor
    Art (uPVC)
    Blue Sky (uPVC)
    Master

    The above should be able to install.

    If you can get your own chippy to install, A&L windows are cheap.

    I don’t like their opening windows, but you can get away with cheaper made fixed windows as they don’t have any moving parts.


    Sen

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    Thanks Jb1, I'll get in touch with them.

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    Just called A&L windows, they aren't even doing quotes for at least 7 months due to shortages and high demand. Unbelievable times.

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    Quote Originally Posted by howmanyru View Post
    Just called A&L windows, they aren't even doing quotes for at least 7 months due to shortages and high demand. Unbelievable times.
    You're not the only one, I wanted to get my kitchen modified to take a dishwasher but the replies I god was not until the end of the year so i di it myself.

    Must be a lot of money floating around.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JB1 View Post
    What do you mean by not packing under the sill?


    Sent
    Do not pack under the middle of the sill, only pack under the vertical jambs at each side.
    If (when) there is settlement or movement in the frame it can push up in the centre of the sill. As there is no framing in the centre all this load is then transferred into the glass pane.

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    Default Replacing old aluminium sliding windows

    Quote Originally Posted by droog View Post
    Do not pack under the middle of the sill, only pack under the vertical jambs at each side.
    If (when) there is settlement or movement in the frame it can push up in the centre of the sill. As there is no framing in the centre all this load is then transferred into the glass pane.
    What you say kind of makes sense, but I’ve seen fixed windows supported by multiple packers.

    On my own fixed 3m wide windows (without mullions) plastic packers were used around 600mm apart.

    Would be good to get confirmation from a chippie or someone who installs windows for a living.

    lk

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